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rastapete Founding Father
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 401 Location: 'Ipsa' this, you pissy little bitch!
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 7:30 am Post subject: Subscription model |
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I just read drneau's plans for the future of TM. I wish him lots of luck, I thought v1 was great, and I think v2 is fantastic, and has been on a phenomenal improvement curve since its release.
I wonder though whether the subscription model is a good idea. I'm sure drneau has thought it through, but all the same, I can't help thinking that the transaction costs are going to be burdensome, both for drneau and for the customers, doing it this way instead of with a one-time license.
Of course I'm very interested to know exactly which features will be unavailable in the 'home' version. |
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drneau Site Admin
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Woodbury, MN
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:14 am Post subject: |
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You mean actual money transaction costs, or the time to manage it?
If the time to manage it becomes burdensome, that'll be a good problem...like the time I had to choose between two girlfriends.
If you mean the little bit PayPal takes out of each payment...I just need to make it more attractive to do longer term agreements rather than month-by-month.
And for sending out passwords, I'm creating something where it's an authorized pull-system on your part rather than me pushing them out.
My goal for the subscription is to keep it high enough to where it's financially worth it for me to keep supporting the application, but low enough to where it's just a drop in the bucket for whomever is benefitting from its use.
So someone running a monthly tournament simply needs to ask themself: In my last tournament, did this application save me enough time and provide enough entertainment to be worth $X for another tournament?
What I like about the subscription model:
- Low cost of entry to the user
- Keep using until you get no value
What I don't like about the one-time fee model
- What's to stop you (not you, but some butthead) from downloading one copy and giving it to everyone?
- Higher cost of entry, possibly prohibitive
Now, someone might say (and people have), "Just let me pay a one-time fee and give me a license that only works on one computer!" I don't want users to have to worry about which computer they are running this on. You should be able to run the app on any computer you want. What if your system crashes right before the tournament...then you couldn't use it on another one. _________________ --
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau |
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MaxPower Founding Father
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 390 Location: Funky Cold Medina - Ohio
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Posted: Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Here's my take...
When I run a tourney, $2 off of every buy-in goes to food. So I'll get about $20 on average. If, say $2-$5 of that take get's eaten up by the tournament subscription (assume a per month or so re-up), I think I can handle that. I'd consider it the cost of doing business, just like buying food for the guys.
-Max |
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drneau Site Admin
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Woodbury, MN
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thx1138 "Ace High"
Joined: 02 Nov 2005 Posts: 3
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Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:11 pm Post subject: Piracy? |
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drneau wrote: |
What I don't like about the one-time fee model
- What's to stop you (not you, but some butthead) from downloading one copy and giving it to everyone?
- Higher cost of entry, possibly prohibitive
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I agree that people (buttheads) will always try to get something for free, but I don't see how this model prevents piracy. It would certainly make it more difficult for the jerks of this world to distribute passwords every 3 months, but it doesn't stop them.
I for one, will be paying my fee, because you've done an incredible job and should be compensated for it. The argument that users should not have to worry about which computer they are running it on applies to the subscription model as well. I don't want to worry about how much time I have left before I have to buy another 3 months, get a new serial number and enter it, when my tournament is about to start.
Wouldn't it make sense to offer a one-time purchase option for those of us who think the higher entry cost is worth it for this great app?
I would also hate 3 years from now, to have invested $120 in a program I love and count on, and find that I can't contact you or get a new serial number (for any number or reasons: no net access at the current time or place, site is down, you've moved on to other things).
Don't get me wrong, the subscription model may work great for some users, but let me own it and use it without being tied to a recurring payment plan.
Once again, this is by far the best Tournament Manager available and I'll happily be a loyal customer, I just think the subscription model is a rare license method for a reason.
Long Live Dr. Neau! |
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drneau Site Admin
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Woodbury, MN
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Posted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 12:14 am Post subject: Re: Piracy? |
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thx1138 wrote: |
I agree that people (buttheads) will always try to get something for free, but I don't see how this model prevents piracy. It would certainly make it more difficult for the jerks of this world to distribute passwords every 3 months, but it doesn't stop them.
I for one, will be paying my fee, because you've done an incredible job and should be compensated for it. The argument that users should not have to worry about which computer they are running it on applies to the subscription model as well. I don't want to worry about how much time I have left before I have to buy another 3 months, get a new serial number and enter it, when my tournament is about to start.
Wouldn't it make sense to offer a one-time purchase option for those of us who think the higher entry cost is worth it for this great app?
I would also hate 3 years from now, to have invested $120 in a program I love and count on, and find that I can't contact you or get a new serial number (for any number or reasons: no net access at the current time or place, site is down, you've moved on to other things).
Don't get me wrong, the subscription model may work great for some users, but let me own it and use it without being tied to a recurring payment plan.
Once again, this is by far the best Tournament Manager available and I'll happily be a loyal customer, I just think the subscription model is a rare license method for a reason.
Long Live Dr. Neau! |
That's just it. This model makes piracy more difficult...doesn't stop it.
If you actually *subscribe* (rather than pay for only 3 months), then you don't need to worry about when to pay again. It is automatic.
Licenses for the next month are posted 15 days before the end of the current month, so you have a good 2 weeks to make sure you have the latest.
My model isn't that different if you look around the industry.
With any fixed-cost licensed products (like Microsoft, etc.) you pay a fixed cost and are entitled to patches...but you don't get new features for free. Once you purchase Word 2000, they don't just hand you Word 2003 when it comes out....you have to pay to upgrade...unless you have an MSDN subscription, which you pay for every year.
With the company I work for (Rational Software of IBM), you buy the license up front and pay an annual fee to get the rights to all upgrades and patches.
Norton AntiVirus: If you want to keep getting updates, you gotta keep paying.
ConsumerReports.com: If you want to keep getting access to the latest reviews, you gotta keep paying.
Here is my reasoning for the license model:
- The app provides value each time you use it, so it's worth a small amount each time you use it.
- I don't want to invest the time into developing a model where I give you a product but have to prevent you from upgrading. I want anyone to be able to download the latest version whenever they feel like it.
I appreciate the feedback, but I'm pretty set on the current model. _________________ --
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau |
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SkipDaddy "Ace High"
Joined: 09 Jan 2006 Posts: 10 Location: Columbus, OH
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Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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As everyone has already said, Great app, no doubt about it. But again, as a software developer myself, as well as a customer of pretty much every app you've mentioned, you have glossed over one small thing.
All of their subscriptions (actually maintenance plans, dig difference) entitle you to support and new versions. But none of them that I know of prevent you from running the app you have already paid for. (MyEclipse is about the only timed subscription that I know of these days) It is your app, your revenue stream and your time and effort. I just really think you are losing revenue with the current method of payment. Do I have a suggestion on how to move to the other model and not drive yourself mad in CRM hell? Nope. Wish I did.
That being said, I wish I were a customer, but unfortunately I have 2 things holding me back.
1. I tried the networking feature, which is the main draw for someone who has 1 table upstairs and one in the basement. It crashed, hard, and I ended up running up and dow all night anyway. I think it may have had something to do with a custom console or sound file. But the test the day before ran well. Who knows? Who has time to find out? Not about to buy a month so I can track it.
2. As with most people, I don't rake my friends. We are just 20-30 guys who play cards once a week, and $5 can easily go towards a few bags of pretzels. While it's not better, not even close, I think I have to stay with Tournament Director for now, or God forbid, an Egg Timer. Heaven help me. |
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