drneau.com

[drneau]

Working on bounties right now. Been over a year since I've thought about them, so I'll revisit.

All bounties have the following attributes:
- Name (to easily distinguish one from another)
- Type (explained below)
- Knockout Reward (what someone gets for knocking someone out)
- Pay type (All, First Elimination, Last Elimination)
- Cost to participate (broken out by prize pool/rake/league like chip purchases)
- Participants (who is eligible to receive rewards)
- Targets (you get rewarded for knocking out targets)
- Contribution from prize pool - a lump sum extracted from the prize pool that goes to the bounty fund.
- Contribution to prize pool - a lump sum extracted from the bounty fund that goes to the prize pool

There will be five types of bounties in v3.

Type 1: Public Global
A bounty where everyone is a participant and everyone is a target (like you are used to in v2).
There is no cost to participate. This bounty is funded from the prize pool. How much is extracted from the prize pool depends on the number of participants, the reward per knockout and the pay type.
The reward per knockout for this bounty is editable.
The participant list is not editable. Everyone is a participant.

Type 2: Public Targeted
A bounty in which everyone participates, but the targets are specific people.
There is no cost to participate. This bounty is funded from the prize pool.
How much is extracted from the prize pool depends on the number of targets, the reward per knockout and the pay type.
The reward per knockout for this bounty is editable.
The participant list is not editable. Everyone is a participant.
You decide who the targets are.

Type 3: Private Global
A bounty in which only certain people participate, but everyone is a target.
This bounty has a cost to partipate. This bounty is funded solely from the participant costs.
The reward per knockout is not editable, but is instead a function of how many partipants there are, what the cost is and how many people are in the tournament.
The participant list is editable.
The target list is NOT editable.

Type 4: Private Targeted
A bounty in which only certain people participate and only certain people are targets. A target doesn't need to be a participant, and vise versa.
This bounty has a cost to partipate. This bounty is funded solely from the participant costs.
The reward per knockout is not editable, but is instead a function of how many partipants there are, what the cost is and how many people are in the tournament.
The participant list is editable.
The target list is editable.

Type 5: Private Group
A bounty in which only certain people participate and only certain people are targets. The participant list and the target list are the same people.
This bounty has a cost to partipate. This bounty is funded solely from the participant costs.
The reward per knockout is not editable, but is instead a function of how many partipants there are, what the cost is and how many people are in the tournament.
The participant list is editable.
The target list is NOT editable.
_________________
--
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau

[drneau]

Been noodling on bounties for a few weeks and starting to implement again. This is really the thing holding up the next beta.

The issue has been around how to implement the selection of "reward for not getting knocked out by one of the participants".

Here's an example to demonstrate what I'm talking about:
- "Jeff" is eliminated by "Steve".
- If "Jeff" is a target in our bounty side bet, then we care about this knockout, otherwise the bounty ignores it. (that's easy)
- If "Steve" is a participant in the bounty side bet, then he gets credit. (that's easy).
- If "Steve" *isn't* a participant, but Jeff is...then what do we do?? Jeff was eliminated by someone who isn't participating in the pool.

That's where the "Self-Credit" toggle comes in. If you say Jeff gets credit, then it's treated like he eliminated himself and he gets credit for a knockout. If you say he doesn't, then the knockout doesn't count.

How does this come into play in real life?!?!?
Normally, in a "Bounty Group", you give out bounty chips. When someone in the group knocks out someone else in the group, they get their chip. But when someone in the group is knocked out by someone NOT in the group, they keep their chip and get their money back.

I'm giving you the ability to decide whether they should get their money back OR have their money be distributed to everyone in the pool.

Now, I just need to worry about 2 other things and I'm good.
- Handling the case where the tournament is over but one of the targets was never eliminated (usually the case when the target wins the tournament).
- Handling the case where there's a bounty group and nobody gets any credit for knocking out anyone else in the group....probably best to handle that through self-credits.
_________________
--
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau

[drneau]

Alright, I think I have it figured out...here's a summary of the bounty system (typing it here will help me in prepping for the help page in the app).

Terminology
Side Bet - A bet into which specified players enter. The bet is based on something other than tournament finishing order. Example are "Bounty", "Best Hand", "Last Longer", etc. Side bets have a cost to enter, a side bet pool (the total of all incoming funds) and a payout plan. Side bets may extract their funds from the tournament prize pool or may be funded by players purchasing entry into the side bet.

Public Side Bet - A side bet in which ALL tournament players participate. Public side bets are free to enter. The side bet pool is funded by extracting funds from the tournament prize pool.

Private Side Bet - A side bet in which participation is optional. There is a cost to participate and the side bet pool is funded solely from the side bet entry fees.

Bounty Side Bet - A side bet where you get rewarded for eliminating other players.

Public Bounty - A bounty side bet in which all tournament players participate (you probably figured that one out). For this type of bounty, you specify the reward per knockout.

Private Bounty - A bounty side bet in which participation is optional. (you probably figured that one out too). For this type of bounty, the reward per knockout is calculated based on the side bet pool and the number of qualifying knockouts.

Global Bounty - A bounty side bet in which every tournament player is a bounty target.

Targeted Bounty - A bounty side bet in which only selected tournament players are bounty targets.

Bounty Group - A bounty side bet in which the participants are the targets.

Qualifying Knockout - A knockout that applies to the bounty you are viewing (usually, where the player knocked out is a target and the eliminator is a participant)


The 5 Bounty Types
Using the different combinations of Public/Private and Global/Targeted/Group, we have 5 types of bounty side bets:

Public Global Bounty - Every player participates and every player is a target. There is no entry cost. You specify the reward per knockout.

Public Targeted Bounty - Every player participates, but only specified players are targets. You specify the reward per knockout.

Private Global Bounty - Only specified players participate, but all players are targets. You specify the entry fee and the reward per knockout is calculated.

Private Targeted Bounty - Only specified players participate and only specified players are targets. You specify the entry fee and the reward per knockout is calculated.

Private Bounty Group - Only specified players participate, and the participants ARE the targets. You specify the entry fee and the reward per knockout is calculated.


Attributes of a Bounty Side Bet
Bounty side bets have the following attributes:
Type - This is explained above. You have 5 choices and you cannot alter this once the bounty is created.
Name - A description of the bounty...in case you have more than one so you can distinguish one from the other.
Cost to participants - The entry fee. This only applies to private side bets. Just like a buy-in, you specify the amount that goes to the side bet pool, the amount that goes to the league and the amount that goes to the rake. The total cost to the player is the sum of these three. The side bet pool is then the cost per player * the number of entrants.
How the side bet is funded - A summary of how the side bet is funded...just for informational purposes.
Knockout reward - How much is paid per knockout. For public bounties, you specify this. For private bounties, it is calculated based on the side bet pool and the expected number of knockouts that need to be paid.
Eliminations to pay - Lets you specify if only first eliminations, only final eliminations or ALL eliminations should qualify.
Self-reward - Let you specify if a player should get bounty credit when they are eliminated by someone other than one of the bounty participants. Two examples of how this applies: 1) In a public global bounty, should the winner of the tournament get a reward for winning? 2) In a private bounty group...should I get rewarded if I'm knocked out but it isn't by someone in the group?
Qualifying knockouts - The number of knockouts that have already occured that apply to this bounty
Remaining knockouts - The number of knockouts that may still occur that apply to this bounty
Participants - Who's eligible for reward.
Targets - Who I get rewarded for knocking out.
Qualifying knockout records - The knockouts that have occured and count for this bounty.

Off Cases
What's taken me so long on this is that I had to figure out how to handle off cases. I'll list some examples and how I've handled them...
What to do with a public global bounty when the tournament is over? - This was the root of the "Self-Credit" selection. For this, if "Self-Credit" is selected, then the winner gets rewarded. If not, then the winner doesn't. Turns out this selection applies to other cases also...
What to do with a private bounty group when a participant is eliminated by someone other than one of the participants?? - Again, the "Self-Credit" selection comes in. If you have "Self-Credit" selected, a participant will essentially get credit when they are knocked out by a non-participant. If you don't, they won't. Note that this directly affects the reward per knockout.
OK, what if I don't give "Self-Credit" and everyone in my private bounty group is eliminated by someone who isn't in the group??? - In this case...whether or not you have "Self-Credit" selected, they'll split the bounty pool equally.
How else does "Self-Credit" apply? - "Self-Credit" is really a general purpose way of saying "Any time you have a situation in a bounty where someone is both a participant and a target and they are eliminated by someone who isn't a participant (or they win), then they should get a reward for not being knocked out by one of the participants.

Please ask questions if any of this doesn't make sense. I want it to make sense!!!
_________________
--
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau

[rumackay]

I've been looking over the bounty info for several minutes racking my brain trying to apply all the odd cases we have had over the years and I honestly can't see any of them not being addressed by what you are implementing.
_________________
-- Kingaroy High Rollers Poker Tour --

[drneau]

[Addicted]

What if two people knock out the same person? For example, Player A goes all in and gets called by Players B and C. After the showdown, we learn that A lost and B & C chop. Who gets the bounty for player A?

[drneau]