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drneau Site Admin
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Woodbury, MN
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Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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MaxPower wrote: | I must admit - over the weekend I got bold and decided to try out the League Ranking creation wizard tool thing-a-ma-bob, and I have to say...
ITS SUPPA-EASY!
Maybe it's beacuse I'm an engineer by trade, and use tools like this elsewhere. Maybe its 'cause I tool a logic class in HighSchool... I dunno, but Kudo's, Doc.
Max
BTW - I'm officially using Twin Cities' Underground's ranking method, and love it! It put me in first place for points... Love that ranking! One thing I have noticed, is that once you create your own method, and export it, it can't find it when you restart the program, and you have to import it again. Am I doing something wrong, or do I just have to wait for V3? |
Also, in v2 multiple methods are stored in the same file...so the preferences reference the file that should be automatically loaded and all methods from that file are loaded.
Your league then references one of the methods from that file. _________________ --
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau |
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ledge "Cowboys"
Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 31 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Shoot me a copy of that ranking system, if ya could, Doc. I'd like to implement it for my next season...
Thanks!
Max |
Just like Max, is it possible for you to send me a copy of the exported league ranking method file too please? I'm in the planning stages of our second season and I'm curious to see how it work for us.
Tanks.
Ledge
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drneau Site Admin
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Woodbury, MN
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Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2006 6:43 am Post subject: |
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Code: | <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<RankingMethodCollection>
<LeagueRankingMethod AggregationMethod="Total" Weighting="Equal" DecayRate="0.0" FixedMinTournaments="0" Name="2005LeagueFormula" MinType="Fixed" PctMinTournaments="0.0" ScoreFormat="Double">
<TournamentScoringFormula>
<TSFNumericFormula Type="Divide">
<TSFNumericFormula Type="Square Root">
<TSFNumericFormula Type="Multiply">
<TSFNumericFormula Type="Multiply">
<TSFNumericVariable Type="Tournament Buy-in Count" />
<TSFNumericVariable Type="Player Buy-in Expense" />
</TSFNumericFormula>
<TSFNumericFormula Type="Divide">
<TSFNumericVariable Type="Player Buy-in Expense" />
<TSFNumericVariable Type="Player Total Expense" />
</TSFNumericFormula>
</TSFNumericFormula>
</TSFNumericFormula>
<TSFNumericFormula Type="Add">
<TSFNumericVariable Type="Player Finish" />
<TSFNumericConstant Value="1.0" />
</TSFNumericFormula>
</TSFNumericFormula>
</TournamentScoringFormula>
</LeagueRankingMethod>
</RankingMethodCollection>
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_________________ --
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau |
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Addicted "Cowboys"
Joined: 08 Jan 2006 Posts: 46 Location: Mokena, Illinois
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Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:10 am Post subject: |
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I was never very good at math (especially word problems). So can someone please explain the rationale for using the square root function in the Twin Cities Underground Poker League Rankings formula? Is it intended to even things out a bit for players who can't make every league tourney or does it have some other purpose?
Also, I think that the league point calculator on the TCUPL web-site (http://home.comcast.net/~jneau/TwinCitiesUnderground05-06.htm) is returning incorrect values. I think this is because the denominator is not being captured within the square root function.
Script is currently:
answer = Math.sqrt(participantCount * buyInCost * buyInCost / totalExpense) / (finish + 1)
I think it should be:
answer = Math.sqrt((participantCount * buyInCost * buyInCost / totalExpense) / (finish + 1))
Much thanks to Doc and everyone who posts on this BB. You all have really improved the enjoyment of our home game. |
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drneau Site Admin
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Woodbury, MN
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Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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Addicted wrote: | I was never very good at math (especially word problems). So can someone please explain the rationale for using the square root function in the Twin Cities Underground Poker League Rankings formula? Is it intended to even things out a bit for players who can't make every league tourney or does it have some other purpose?
Also, I think that the league point calculator on the TCUPL web-site (http://home.comcast.net/~jneau/TwinCitiesUnderground05-06.htm) is returning incorrect values. I think this is because the denominator is not being captured within the square root function.
Script is currently:
answer = Math.sqrt(participantCount * buyInCost * buyInCost / totalExpense) / (finish + 1)
I think it should be:
answer = Math.sqrt((participantCount * buyInCost * buyInCost / totalExpense) / (finish + 1))
Much thanks to Doc and everyone who posts on this BB. You all have really improved the enjoyment of our home game. |
The denominator is not suppose to be inside the square root function. The point calculator on the website is correct.
Without the square root, the buy-in count, the buy-in expense and the total expense would have much more weight in the formula than I would prefer. _________________ --
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau |
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Addicted "Cowboys"
Joined: 08 Jan 2006 Posts: 46 Location: Mokena, Illinois
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Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks.
Then is Rastapete's 2/15 post in this thread correct? |
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drneau Site Admin
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Woodbury, MN
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Addicted "Cowboys"
Joined: 08 Jan 2006 Posts: 46 Location: Mokena, Illinois
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Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the clarification regarding the TCUPL league ranking method. I've recalculated my league standings with the corrected formula (i.e. the denominator is not included in the square root function), and my standings seem to make a lot more sense now.
I think I got confused by the screen shot contained in Rastapete's post at 2/15/06 @ 9:02 pm. The positions of the Square Root and Divide functions shown in that screen shot should be swapped.
Thanks again. |
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boschie "A Set of Mop Squeezers"
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 51 Location: Gramsbergen, Nederland
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:08 pm Post subject: Cannot seem to get the ranking to work. |
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On paper it works just great but on the program it does not seem to reward the people who keep coming back.
Example:
We have a league in wich we played 8 tournaments. Person One has played in al tournaments and person Two only in one (the 6th).
I tried to see if there was a difference in ranking points in tournamant 9.
I let 30 people play the tournament.
First time i eliminated everybody except Person One, who was automatic eliminated by the program. He got, lets say, 10.653 points for 1st place and every body else got 6.324 for being second.
After deleting the history i did the same with Person Two. He got the same amount of points as Person One, even though he had played only one game.
What am i (is the code) doing wrong?
P.S. code is: 2005LeagueFormula |
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drneau Site Admin
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Woodbury, MN
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Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2007 6:32 pm Post subject: Re: Cannot seem to get the ranking to work. |
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boschie wrote: | On paper it works just great but on the program it does not seem to reward the people who keep coming back.
Example:
We have a league in wich we played 8 tournaments. Person One has played in al tournaments and person Two only in one (the 6th).
I tried to see if there was a difference in ranking points in tournamant 9.
I let 30 people play the tournament.
First time i eliminated everybody except Person One, who was automatic eliminated by the program. He got, lets say, 10.653 points for 1st place and every body else got 6.324 for being second.
After deleting the history i did the same with Person Two. He got the same amount of points as Person One, even though he had played only one game.
What am i (is the code) doing wrong?
P.S. code is: 2005LeagueFormula |
You need to look at cumulative points across multiple tournaments. You shouldn't get more points than I do in tournament 9 because you've played more tournaments. _________________ --
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau |
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boschie "A Set of Mop Squeezers"
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 51 Location: Gramsbergen, Nederland
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:13 am Post subject: Re: Cannot seem to get the ranking to work. |
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drneau wrote: |
You need to look at cumulative points across multiple tournaments. You shouldn't get more points than I do in tournament 9 because you've played more tournaments. |
I thought that: <TSFNumericVariable Type="Player Total Expense" /> was doing this?
If not, is there another variable that does it or do i need to code it realy different? |
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rastapete Founding Father
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 401 Location: 'Ipsa' this, you pissy little bitch!
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Cannot seem to get the ranking to work. |
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boschie wrote: | drneau wrote: |
You need to look at cumulative points across multiple tournaments. You shouldn't get more points than I do in tournament 9 because you've played more tournaments. |
I thought that: <TSFNumericVariable Type="Player Total Expense" /> was doing this?
If not, is there another variable that does it or do i need to code it realy different? |
I believe that is the player's total expense for that tournament - i.e. buy-in plus re-buys plus add-ons. |
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boschie "A Set of Mop Squeezers"
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 51 Location: Gramsbergen, Nederland
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:22 am Post subject: This is what is written on Twin Cities Underground |
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I quote:
Quote: | Players are ranked in each tournament using the following formula:
score = (sqrt(((a * b) * (b / c))) / (d + 1.0))
where
a = Tournament Buy-in Count
b = Player Buy-in Expense
c = Player Total Expense
d = Player Finish
A player's score for the league is the sum of all their tournament scores.
Use the "League Points Calculator" in the upper right to calculate your possible points for a tournament!
In general, the formula rewards players who:
* Last longer in a tournament
* Play in more tournaments (you can't win once and sit out the rest of the season)
* Do better in larger tournaments (the winner of a 16-player MD20 buy-in tournament will get more points than the winner of a 10-player MD20 buy-in tournament)
* Do just as well in higher buy-in tournaments (the winner of a 16-player MD40 buy-in tournament will get more points than the winner of a 16-player MD20 buy-in tournament)
* Purchase fewer add-ons and rebuys (as seen in "The Organ Stop", Harold Neau finished higher in the standings than Don Lundgren, but Don received more points because he did not purchase an add-on or a rebuy) |
So... where is the clue? |
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drneau Site Admin
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Woodbury, MN
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Posted: Thu Apr 26, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: Re: This is what is written on Twin Cities Underground |
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boschie wrote: | I quote:
Quote: | Players are ranked in each tournament using the following formula:
score = (sqrt(((a * b) * (b / c))) / (d + 1.0))
where
a = Tournament Buy-in Count
b = Player Buy-in Expense
c = Player Total Expense
d = Player Finish
A player's score for the league is the sum of all their tournament scores.
Use the "League Points Calculator" in the upper right to calculate your possible points for a tournament!
In general, the formula rewards players who:
* Last longer in a tournament
* Play in more tournaments (you can't win once and sit out the rest of the season)
* Do better in larger tournaments (the winner of a 16-player MD20 buy-in tournament will get more points than the winner of a 10-player MD20 buy-in tournament)
* Do just as well in higher buy-in tournaments (the winner of a 16-player MD40 buy-in tournament will get more points than the winner of a 16-player MD20 buy-in tournament)
* Purchase fewer add-ons and rebuys (as seen in "The Organ Stop", Harold Neau finished higher in the standings than Don Lundgren, but Don received more points because he did not purchase an add-on or a rebuy) |
So... where is the clue? |
Clue for what?
The formula gives a player a score based on data from that tournament.
A league score is some aggregation of the tournament scores from that league.
What is your goal? Let's start with that and figure out how to get there... _________________ --
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau |
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boschie "A Set of Mop Squeezers"
Joined: 11 Apr 2007 Posts: 51 Location: Gramsbergen, Nederland
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:24 am Post subject: Re: This is what is written on Twin Cities Underground |
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drneau wrote: | What is your goal? Let's start with that and figure out how to get there... |
My goal is to promote people to come back by giving them extra points the next tournament.
Lets say: if you played 2 tournaments you get 2% extra points the 3rd tournament and if you played 5 tournaments you get 5% extra points the 6th tournament you play.
Does this make any sense?
I think it means you have to count how many tournaments a player has had and make it in a formula... Thats what i thought "players total expense" was, seems to be only from a tournament. |
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drneau Site Admin
Joined: 13 Feb 2005 Posts: 2385 Location: Woodbury, MN
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Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:50 am Post subject: Re: This is what is written on Twin Cities Underground |
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boschie wrote: |
My goal is to promote people to come back by giving them extra points the next tournament.
Lets say: if you played 2 tournaments you get 2% extra points the 3rd tournament and if you played 5 tournaments you get 5% extra points the 6th tournament you play.
Does this make any sense?
I think it means you have to count how many tournaments a player has had and make it in a formula... Thats what i thought "players total expense" was, seems to be only from a tournament. |
Can I reword your goal as, "My goal is to promote more frequent participation"?
If that's the case, then simply having a league ranking method that adds the points from all tournaments together (as opposed to one who averages them) should accomplish that.
For example, maybe you have 10 10-player tournaments. It ends up that 1st place gets 10 points, 2nd get 7, 3rd gets 5...10th gets 1.
Someone who plays in and wins only 1 tournament gets 10 points. Someone who plays 10, losing 9 and coming in 2nd in the last would get 16. _________________ --
Dr. Neau (not a real doctor)
http://drneau.com
http://home.comcast.net/~jneau |
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lvautoglass "Ace High"
Joined: 06 Jan 2006 Posts: 4
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Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2007 2:58 pm Post subject: Twin Cities ranking method |
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Dr. Neau,
Could you please send me your league ranking method for twin cities.
Thank you.
Dave. |
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flybryfly "Ace High"
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 7 Location: Redlands, CA
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Posted: Wed Jun 18, 2008 1:31 am Post subject: www.pacesedge.com/poker |
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I have been using Dr. Neau's Tournament Manager for over two years now. I have been happy with it and cannot wait for the next version...hope it is Mac-friendly.
To see the ranking method I use for over 100 players in a 10-event "season," visit www.pacesedge.com/poker
I use the rankings to determine chip stacks at the end of the year. The "better" players should have some form of "home-field" advantage was my thought. Gives people incentive to return to the table each Circuit Event as well.
Yes, it does favor people that play everytime, but hey...if Tiger Woods takes a year off...doesn't his ranking go down? I say reward the player that plays each time. That is better than not showing up.
Penny for your thoughts,
-pACE |
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