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Thoughts on my BS

 
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rastapete
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 1:36 pm    Post subject: Thoughts on my BS Reply with quote

I’ve been re-thinking my Blind Structure, especially the BB's relationship to the average stack size.

I host a single table tourney that averages 7-10 players. Starting stack is 2k, we do 40 min. levels, with rebuys available (1:1) for the first 3 levels, and add-ons for 500, 1k, or 1.5k available at the end of level 3. Add-ons can only take you up to but not beyond the 2k. So if you have 1.3k you can only take a 500 add-on.

This is our current blind structure:

  • 1 - 25/25
  • 2 - 25/50
  • 3 - 50/100
  • 4 - 75/150
  • 5 - 100/200
  • 6 - 150/300
  • 7 - 200/400
  • 8 - 300/600
  • 9 - 500/1000
  • 10 - 1000/2000
  • 11 - 2000/4000
  • 11 - 3000/6000


Fact is that the tourney usually ends by level 7, occasionally 8. We usually get 2-3 rebuys, say one in L2 and 2 in L3, and about 2k in add-ons. So the total chips for an 8 player tourney starts at 16k but ends up around 24k.

A little context for you - the reason the first level is 25/25 is to keep the <25 chips off the table. But I'd be happy to start lower if necessary. My goals are:
to make sure everyone who wants to can get minimum 2 hours of play, hence the rebuys for L1-3;
to allow for good poker play - i.e. I don't want an all-in fest after 2 hours;
to have the tournament last 4-6 hours.

I estimated the Average Stack as a multiple of the BB, and it goes 80, 45, 27.5, 20, and them levels off between 15-20 until L9, when it tails off 12,6,3. I think the drop during the first 4 levels is a bit steep, so I came up with an 'ideal' scale that goes 80, 60, 40, 25, 20, 15, 15, 20, 10, 5. This translates into the following structure:

  • 1 - 10/20
  • 2 - 15/30
  • 3 - 30/60
  • 4 - 50/100
  • 5 - 75/150
  • 6 - 150/300
  • 7 - 200/400
  • 8 - 300/600
  • 9 - 400/800
  • 10 - 600/1200
  • 11 - 1000/2000



Any thoughts on this to replace the current structure?

Cheers,
Peter
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Dix
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2006 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the revised one. It's damn near spot on to what I would write up given what you're looking for. I generally start with the BB being 1-2% of the starting stack size then go from there based on how long the tourney should theoretically take, but try to never have the blinds actually double.

General rule of thumb is that a tourney will end when the BB is roughly 1-2% of the total chips in play. (which yours usually do - 24K/400 = 1.66%)

With level 7 of the new schedule being the same 200-400 level you're looking at the same length, but with lower early rounds you can lose a few pots and not get into the "all-in and pray or rebuy" mentality too quickly.
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5thStreetPokerParties.com
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could make the time of the blind levels progressively decrease over the course of the event. This usually works out with small events because you will see the same number of hands in the later levels as the players are eliminated. This might also encourage more rebuys... Ex.:

1 - 25/25 - 55 min.
2 - 25/50 - 50 min.
3 - 50/100 - 45 min.
4 - 75/150 - 40 min.
5 - 100/200 - 35 min.
6 - 150/300 - 30 min.
7 - 200/400 - 25 min.
8 - 300/600 - 20 min.
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MaxPower
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I first read the title of this post, I was sorta concerned...

-Max
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Rassal
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that's cause of the BS... yeah, i can understand your point....
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rastapete
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input guys. I'm in the midst of discussing this with a guy over at 2+2 so if anything interesting comes of that I'll post it here too.
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drneau
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rastapete wrote:
Thanks for the input guys. I'm in the midst of discussing this with a guy over at 2+2 so if anything interesting comes of that I'll post it here too.


I like your new structure much better.

Tournaments are a struggle between:
a) Ending on time, and
b) Making players feel like they can win with skill rather than luck

Accelerate blinds too fast, players feel like it is all-in or nothing. Slow it down, tournament ends too late.

As far as getting lower chips on the table, get 'em on. I prefer having players start with more chips than fewer...makes them feel like they have something to play with. In our tournaments, players typically start with 60-80 chips each. I've played in tournaments where you start with 20 chips or less...ick. People are constantly making change. You never feel like you have much. Re-stacking after a win takes 2 seconds. What fun is that??
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:44 pm    Post subject: my structure... Reply with quote

i use this with starting 1500 in chips, 2 max rebuys available for the 1st three levels back up to 1500 but never over from any amount under 1500.

with 7-10 people, it usually takes about 3.5 hours. i actually believe that with your starting stacks of 2000 the tournament might not take that much longer given most people's propensity to make big moves late.

you might like to use the blinds and then keep your own, longer levels in place. we have reasonably short levels because this game takes place on a weeknight:

Level Duration Blinds Ante Limit Type Notes
1 00:25:00 10.0 / 20.0 0.0 No Limit Rebuys allowed
2 00:25:00 15.0 / 30.0 0.0 No Limit Rebuys allowed
3 00:25:00 20.0 / 40.0 0.0 No Limit Rebuys allowed
Break 1 00:10:00 Rebuys allowed
4 00:25:00 25.0 / 50.0 0.0 No Limit
5 00:22:00 50.0 / 100.0 0.0 No Limit
6 00:22:00 75.0 / 150.0 0.0 No Limit
Break 2 00:10:00
7 00:20:00 100.0 / 200.0 0.0 No Limit
8 00:20:00 200.0 / 400.0 0.0 No Limit
9 00:15:00 300.0 / 600.0 0.0 No Limit
10 00:15:00 400.0 / 800.0 0.0 No Limit
11 00:15:00 600.0 / 1200.0 0.0 No Limit
12 00:15:00 800.0 / 1600.0 0.0 No Limit
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MaxPower
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's what we adopted at WCRPL:

Code:
Level Duration Blinds Ante Limit Type Notes
1 00:15:00 10.0 / 20.0 0.0 No Limit Rebuys & Add-Ons Allowed
2 00:15:00 20.0 / 40.0 0.0 No Limit Rebuys & Add-Ons Allowed
3 00:15:00 40.0 / 80.0 0.0 No Limit Rebuys & Add-Ons Allowed
4 00:15:00 80.0 / 160.0 0.0 No Limit Rebuys & Add-Ons Allowed
Break 1 00:05:00       Rebuys & Add-Ons Allowed
5 00:15:00 150.0 / 300.0 0.0 No Limit   
6 00:15:00 300.0 / 600.0 0.0 No Limit   
7 00:15:00 500.0 / 1000.0 0.0 No Limit   
8 00:15:00 1000.0 / 2000.0 0.0 No Limit   
Break 2 00:05:00         
9 00:07:30 1800.0 / 3600.0 0.0 No Limit   
10 00:07:30 3500.0 / 7000.0 0.0 No Limit   
11 00:07:30 6800.0 / 13600.0 0.0 No Limit   
12 00:07:30 13000.0 / 26000.0 0.0 No Limit   


We start out with 3000 in chips, plus 2K more with the one addon allowed. Rebuys are limited to 1, chip denoms are 10, 20, 50, 100 and 500.

The idea is to have a tourney last about 2-1/2 hours so we can get two in from 7 to midnite. We first experimented with this structure during our last tourney - the first session went on-time, the other went a little over. I'm thinking about using antes in the later levels to keep this from happening again, but we'll see.

Anyone else doing something like this?

Max
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